The Cultural Argument Against Gay Marriage

Not many years ago it was unutterable, except perhaps as a schoolyard can-you-top-this, or as urban legend. Yet it is one of the most sensational issues of our time, and an almost-impossible topic to avoid. And, from what I’m hearing, it’s not always easy for people like you and me to articulate the reasons we oppose it. It’s called “same-sex marriage.”

“I know why same-sex marriage is wrong,” I often hear, “but I’m not sure how to articulate its dangers.” Christian friends are looking for a way to relate to those who may not hold the same views, and that’s wise.

To be clear, our religious beliefs do offer legitimate reasons to oppose same-sex marriage. But if we’re to win this important debate and win hearts and minds, we must be able to articulate our convictions in culturally relevant ways.

I’ve had the opportunity to take this debate into the university setting many times, this is what I hear from aggressive proponents of gay marriage:

• They’ve argued that denying them marriage is denying them the ability to have a loving commitment with another person. Frankly, that’s just not true. People love others and commit to others all the time—we just don’t always call it “marriage.”

• Advocates often argue that they are being denied a civil right. There are two problems with this. First, laws have already been established defining certain conditions under which people may marry. The would-be spouse must be an adult, cannot already be married to another, cannot be closely related to the person he or she is marrying, and they must marry another human. In other words, restrictions have always existed. No one has ever been able to marry anyone simply because they loved them. Second, many civil rights leaders, including Rev. Jesse Jackson, have rejected the comparison between the fight for same-sex marriage and the fight for civil rights. As Jackson said, “Gays were never declared 3/5 human by the Constitution, and they never needed a Voting Rights Act.”

• Others argue that it’s unfair that married couples have benefits others don’t. Well, again, there are reasons for that, and it’s tied to childrearing. But marriage is not a bundle of government benefits. It’s about something much bigger than that. If the goal is government benefits, then that should be the issue, not redefining marriage to accommodate the desires of some adults.

• More profoundly, though, one of my debate opponents has argued that moral claims must have some genuine connection with human well-being: so not just any reason is a moral reason.

I don’t disagree. In fact, the historic moral precepts of Western civilization generally—and Christianity specifically—are based on that very question: What is best for people? And I believe that the reasons for restricting marriage are, indeed, tied to human well-being and the common good.

In other words, it’s precisely because same-sex marriage is not in the best interests of society that we oppose it.

First, though, let’s be clear about what this issue is not about. This issue is not about whether homosexuals are equal citizens who deserve to be treated with dignity. They are, and they do.

The issue is about the public purpose of marriage. And, if that public purpose of marriage has served us well, can it—or should it—accommodate the desires of those espousing same-sex marriage and same-sex families as the social equivalent of natural marriage?

Private reasons for entering into marriage—or any other relationship for that matter—vary widely. But the public purpose has remained virtually unchanged throughout human history.

Humanity knows many different forms of relationships: close friendships, cousins, aunts and uncles, and nieces and nephews, brothers and sisters. Why is it that every society throughout human history has favored the relationship between a man and a woman who commit to one another? And why is it that this unique relationship is called “marriage,” and nothing else is?

For those answers, we can turn to anthropologists. They tell us that natural marriage—a union between a man and a woman—is humanly and historically universal. Never, until the last few milliseconds of human history, has any society had homosexual marriage.

Anthropologist Edward Westermarck, in his work The History of Human Marriage, explains that marriage:

1. Has always involved men and women.
2. Has existed from primitive times in all human societies.
3. Always exists to serve the family. It never exists solely for individuals or for couples. (Marriage does benefit adults—often richly—but that’s not the primary reason cultures have favored marriage.)

Westermarck and other anthropologists tell us marriage has always been about the next generation.

So, on every land mass, throughout human history, marriage between a man and a woman has been the social norm. There are simply no exceptions! And in each of those societies, the public purpose has centered on the well-being of children.

Why is this universally true? Is it merely the result of broad-scale religious indoctrination? Is this a right-wing conspiracy?

Far from it. Simply put, marriage transcends religion, politics, culture, and law. Indeed, it appears that human nature requires marriage.

Reams of social science, as well as medical and psychological research, makes this case and scream “caution” in proceeding with any dramatic change regarding marriage.

An Untested Social Experiment

Remember what’s being proposed here: same-sex marriage advocates are asking all of us to commit our society and coming generations to an untested social experiment where gender—shown in the irreplaceable value of male and female—is not essential to the family.

How do we know if this will be good for children, adults, and the community? No society has ever reared a generation of children in same-sex homes, so we can’t really know how it will affect children.

Paul Nathanson, a professor at McGill University in Canada and a practicing homosexual, says that “advocates of gay marriage have made no serious attempt to consider the possible harms, and object to those who want more time to assess the evidence from other periods or other cultures.”

Nathanson is right. In fact, though humanity has not considered homosexual marriage until very recently, there is a culture we can examine for understanding this issue. Scandinavian countries approved same-sex marriage about 10 years ago and the impact on marriage has been devastating.

Since legalization, the out-of-wedlock birthrates and the divorce rates have risen sharply. In Sweden, the divorce rate among gay men is 50 percent higher than the heterosexual divorce rate. For lesbian women, the divorce rate is 170 percent higher. The effect of these divorces is significant. These high rates of divorce lower cultural esteem for marriage. Worse, gay marriage separates marriage from parenting. It says that marriage is about adult desires, not the needs of children. Scandinavians are buying that message, and marriage is in a steep decline, as is child well-being.

Here in the United States we have had experience with two of the things same-sex marriage advocates are asking us to consider. Specifically, a generation ago, we were asked to redefine marriage and family, at least subtly; and to believe that gender does not matter to the family.

Redefining Marriage

More than 30 years ago, Americans created “no-fault divorce” (NFD). This was a redefinition of marriage, an untested social experiment with the family, though much more subtle than what we’re being asked to consider today. The no-fault divorce experiment said marriage should only last as long as one partner wanted it to last, and implicitly said that it was almost exclusively about adult happiness, not child well-being. That was a dramatic shift in thinking, and society has paid the price.

Glenn Stanton, a sociologist and marriage expert, puts it this way: “NFD advocates told us that it was simply love, and not family structure, that made a family. And even though we didn’t have any experience with widespread divorce, NFD advocates assured us it would all work out fine.”

Thirty years of experience with millions of divorced families indicate it wasn’t such good idea.

Every major study since then—and there have been thousands—shows that the divorce experiment hurt children and adults. Badly. Worse than anyone ever imagined.

What we know, beyond any doubt, is that children from single-gender homes are much more likely to commit crimes, go to jail, have children out of wedlock, drop out of school, abuse drugs, experience emotional trouble, commit suicide, and live in poverty. Name the social problem, and it’s tied to family dissolution.

Judith Wallerstein, a University of California–Berkeley professor, has studied children of divorce for 30 years. Looking back on her life’s work and the no-fault divorce experiment, she laments:
“In our rush to improve the lives of adults … we made radical changes in the family without realizing how it would change the experience of growing up. We embarked on a gigantic social experiment without any idea of how the next generation would be affected. If the truth be told, and if we are able to face it, the history of divorce in our society is replete with unwarranted assumptions that adults have made about children simply because such assumptions are congenial to adult needs and wishes.”

The same-sex marriage experiment follows this same path. It asks us to redefine marriage based on huge, unproven assumptions driven largely by the wishes of adults rather than the needs of children.

And, like the no-fault divorce advocates of the ’60s and ’70s, same-sex marriage advocates are telling us that parental gender does not matter for the family and for children.

Does Gender Matter?

But we don’t have to wonder how a one-gender family will impact children. We know from 40 years of experience with the explosive growth of “intentionally fatherless families.”

Thousands of conclusive social science, medical, and psychological investigations published in hundreds of professional journals have shown that: children without fathers are half as likely to do well in and graduate from school; they are more likely to require professional attention for physical or emotional problems; they are at an elevated risk for physical abuse or death; they are less likely to develop empathy for others; they are less confident; and they are more likely to spend time in jail and have children out of wedlock.

All things being equal, children raised apart from their fathers—even if that father is replaced by another loving parent figure—suffer serious declines in every important measure of well-being.

Let us be clear: A good, compassionate and just society always comes to the aid of fatherless or motherless children. But a good, compassionate, and just society never intentionally creates fatherless and motherless children.

Fathers matter as male parents, not just as a second set of unisex hands to chip in with the housework and childrearing.

Child psychologists for 40 years have been telling us how mothers and fathers parent differently, and how healthy child development demands this difference.

• Fathering scholar Dr. Kyle Pruett of Yale Medical School says dads matter simply because “fathers do not mother.”

Psychology Today explains, “Fatherhood turns out to be a complex and unique phenomenon with huge consequences for the emotional and intellectual growth of children.”

• A scientific review of more than 100 published studies on the benefits of child-parent relationships found that “overall, father love appears to be as heavily implicated as mother love in offspring’s psychological well-being and health.”

Very simply, the same-sex family is problematic because same-sex families intentionally deprive a child of either a mother or a father just because adults want it that way.

But this is not about the value of homosexuals as human beings. Indeed, their value is beyond dispute. They are loved by God as we all are.

But if we go the route of same-sex marriage, it means we will be subjecting our children to another state-sanctioned social experiment on the family, fueled largely by adult wishes.

The public purpose of marriage is primarily to take children from childhood to healthy adulthood. Its purpose is legitimate. It is tied to human well-being and the common good … and it thrives when men and women join together to parent children.

Any time we intentionally remove an essential part of humanity from the family—be it male or female—we have a family that will fail to function as society and children need it to. If we allow this shift to occur, we will fail our children and coming generations.

Randy Hicks is president of the Georgia Family Council, a non-profit organization that works to strengthen and defend the family in Georgia by impacting communities, shaping laws, and influencing culture. For more information, go to www.georgiafamily.org, call (770) 242-0001, or email gregg@gafam.org.

GOD'S GIFT TO MAN: The Biblical View of Marriage

It ain’t braggin’ if it’s true: Eve really was God’s gift to Man. The story in Genesis 2 is the bedrock of biblical marriage. After naming the animals and finding no suitable helper for himself, Adam encounters his newly—and perfectly—created wife, God’s gift to him. He greets her with joy and relief, uttering the first recorded human words in poetic verse:

“This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; this one shall be called Woman, for out of Man this one was taken.”

Adam rejoices! He is no longer alone. The author of Genesis explains: “Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and clings to his wife, and they become one flesh.” God creates this first woman from the first man’s bone and flesh, his very body, the author reasons, so human marriage is a “one flesh” union. Those two words are central to the biblical definition of marriage.

First, he says, a marrying man is to leave his father and his mother. Although his parents have given him his very life out of themselves, and although his early attachment is to them, his primary loyalty is to be elsewhere.

Second, a married man is to cling to his wife. This is the positive complement of leaving his parents, and suggests a profound union of husband with wife, so that his primary identification in all of life is with her. The outcome? They become “one flesh.”

This is a fully shared life. Overriding even blood relationships, marriage is the most profound bond that exists between two human beings; within it nothing can be withheld.

In Genesis 2, God creates marriage when he makes the first woman out of the flesh of the first man, so that the bond of marriage reunites man and woman as “one flesh.” All other relational claims are subordinate to those of marriage. “One flesh” entails a lifelong, exclusive clinging of one man to one woman, one life fully shared. Marriage puts a barrier around the two and destroys all barriers between them; they belong fully to one another, and to one another only.

In Ephesians 5:22–33, Paul calls marriage a “mystery” that reveals Jesus Christ and the church, drawing parallels between the Christian marriage of a man and a wife and the ultimate marriage of Christ and His church. The betrothal of the Church to Christ and the union of the believer with Christ are not mere metaphors; they are the reality to which a Christian marriage points.

In Jonathan Edwards’ lofty prose: “Then the church shall be brought to the full enjoyment of her bridegroom, having all tears wiped away from her eyes; and there shall be no more distance or absence. She shall then be brought to the entertainments of an eternal wedding-feast, and to dwell forever with her bridegroom; yea, to dwell eternally in his embraces. Then Christ will give her his loves; and she shall drink her fill, yea, she shall swim in the ocean of his love.”

Inspired by and adapted from R. C. Ortlund, Jr. in The New Dictionary of Biblical Theology.

Comments

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Konfu Kitty


California



Thanks...I Am Using Your Arguments About Gay Marriage In My Senior Paper...This Helped Alot

2007-12-14 23:44 Permalink Reply

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Cin


CT



Awesome article. Comprehensive and Insightful- thanks!

2008-03-12 21:06 Permalink Reply

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Anne


CA



This article successfully danced around the issues and failed to convince me of your viewpoint. I really did try to understand why people have such a problem with gay marriage, but all I got was a bunch of fluff.

2008-05-18 16:11 Permalink Reply

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Chris


CA



I am appalled to see how psychological research was misquoted to suit your agenda. Any child psychologist will agree fathers are important, and that single parent homes often have children with problems. Most of these problems, however, are due to poverty, discrimination, unavailability of adult monitoring, and other social ills. This research has absolutely nothing to do with gay parenting. Other research has found, however, that children with two same-sex parents are just as well-adjusted and healthy as children from other loving two parent homes. In fact, the kids in these homes are likely to have less rigid gender roles (that is, the boys might be nicer to women and the girls may explore all available career options, not just the stereotypically female ones). So, before we say there's no research on a generation of kids raised in gay homes, go out and read a little.

2008-06-19 02:40 Permalink Reply

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James


NY



Chris, could you point us to where you got your data from? I've read a lot but haven't seen articles stating what you're claiming.

2008-08-19 13:30 Permalink Reply

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Jason


CA



Chris, I counter your implication that boys from traditional families tend to not be as nice to women or that women are encouraged toward "stereotypically" female occupations. I have always strived to treat everyone with kindness, even in disagreement, as with you. Furthermore, two of my best female friends hold strong professional desires, one to be a physicist and the other to be a UN liaison or ambassador. Please judge each case differently, don't assume stereotypes.

2008-08-26 19:27 Permalink Reply

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James


AUS



Jason, i completely agree with your last line: "Please judge each case differently, don't assume stereotypes." It is a shame that this article does nothing but this.

2008-08-28 00:10 Permalink Reply

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Jeremy


UT



I have to agree with Jason. I'm a student at BYU, a predominantly Christian university, and I've noted two things here that differ from other places I've lived: First, many of the women attending school are very ambitious, many of them more ambitious than the men attending the school. Second, most of the men I've observed here are very respectful to the women. I try to be kind to the women I know, and I've made a lot of friends of the opposite sex.
My point is that most of the students attending here come from heterosexual parents, and they've turned out great. I would be more inclined to consider what proponents of gay marriage say if they didn't build their argument by attacking my family's lifestyle.

2008-08-28 13:27 Permalink Reply

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Eric


CA



Chris,
I am aware of the 1000's of studies associated with male/female relationships and their affect on children and have read a few. I have not come across the ones you reference. Can you send me a link to a 5 or 6 of them?

2008-09-15 00:05 Permalink Reply

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John


Griffin


Greer SC


Regarding the negative responses, I think that some of the respondents are not predisposed to consider this question honestly. The anecdotal observations that I have made as a public educator are conpletely in line with the studies that have been cited in this article.

2012-05-10 11:35 Permalink Reply

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Joel


Batts


GA


Hi Anne:

What points did you find unconvincing?

Joel

2012-05-10 11:44 Permalink Reply

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william


ridenour


dallas, tx


Ann, It seems to me the arguments on the public purpose of marriage combined with the psychological and social data on the effect the arbitrary experiments of government social engineering have had on children are adequate to make society proceed with caution on this critical issue.
G.K. Chesterton wrote that people say, "I don't see any reason for that ancient wall. Let's take it down." But I say that wall should be left to stand until the original reason for it is seen and properly understood, and judged to be inadequate or unnecessary. Any process short of that puts society in general (and in the case of marriage) the coming generations of children in specific in great peril.That is high, high risk and high, high cost simply to carry out a social experiment to satisfy the appetite of the human narcissistic impulse.

2012-05-13 12:53 Permalink Reply

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Colin


Los Angeles



While I understand the reason that one would be concerned about the children in a same-sex marriage, one must understand that what information exists about the success of raising children in a same-sex home suggests that it is just as successful as in an opposite-sex home. The statistics are scarce on the issue at this point, but there does not appear to be a correlation similar to that of a single parent.

As to the position of legalization of gay marriage being a social experiment with no basis to believe in its likelihood of success, I have no better example to cite than the United States of America. People said that the idea of full self-governance was crazy, but 232 years later it seems to have worked fairly well.

It is unfortunate the way this discussion is often framed, by both sides. As a gay man tentatively allowed to marry in California, I can tell you that a lot of the resistance we have faced is not based on rational arguments, but rather on hate and anger. Though I disagree with your positions, I applaud you for taking a much more calm approach to the topic.

2008-05-19 18:50 Permalink Reply

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Lara


San Luis Obispo



Colin, why do you assume that people's arguments are based on hate? (That assumption is bigoted in itself.) A difference of opinion doesn't equal hate. One could argue that so much of the gay agenda is based on paranoia, self-pity, anger, and aggression (complete with threats, lawsuits, and other punishment when people stand for their own beliefs) but sweeping generalizations are rarely accurate. There is much unforeseen fallout from favoring one group at the expense of another. Gays have all their civil rights, and should NOT be attempting to limit ours.

2008-09-08 16:51 Permalink Reply

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Joseph


Texas



This article speaks directly to the heart of what I have thought and believed but have never been able to articulate. Awesome article.

2008-05-23 20:01 Permalink Reply

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Dennis




Wow... I believe this is the ONLY article that I have read that offers a legitimate argument against gay marriage that is not based in bigotry.

I really felt that you argument was compelling and well-articulated. I also beleve that the instituion of marriage is crumbling.

By arguing that marriage exists for the children's sake, you really make it ahrd to argue against...

However, there is still a fundaental flaw with your argument that gay-marriage advocates wil expliot.

1.) There is no solid proof that children raised by gay couples will suffer emotional problems. I mean duh, they'll probably get teased at school, but that sees to be more because of the cutural stigmatism against gays...

2.) You also can't prove that any development problems of the child is due to the lack of a father/mother figure. Yes, children from single parent households due have more problems... but I believe that's more due to the fct that the parental figure is just missing from the child's life. since single parents have to work all the time to support their family... they dont eallyhave as much time to invest in their child's development while a couple raisng a kid can balance everything.

Finally, isn't it more important for orphans and unwanted children to have the love of parents? I mean, isn't it better for them to experience parental love from two people of the same sex than no parental love at all? Growing up in a gay family has to be better than growing up in a foster home or growing up on the streets.

But then again, I guess people can still adopt kids without getting married, right?

2008-05-31 02:17 Permalink Reply

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Caitlin Duncan


California



Along with Colin and Dennis, I have to say that this argument is framed very well. Unlike the presentation of similar opinions I've heard and read, this argument is based on your intent to strengthen and defend the institution of marriage as opposed to vilifying and attacking the gay community. For that, I thank you for demonstrating that there is an honorable way to communicate a difference in belief.

I agree that marriage and the family do need to be strengthened. I believe that strong families can provide a compass for generations, a map that young people can use as reference to choose what is right based on values learned in the home. I do, however, disagree with other points, namely the one pertaining to civil rights.

True, the histories of the homosexual and the person of color are different. In the United States there has been a very visible line by which to trace the oppression of and prejudice against the Black community. This history is one that all Americans must acknowledge and vow to learn from.

Even so, while there was no massive slave trade involving the gay community, there has been a history of civil rights abuses against that community. With my respects to the Reverend Jackson, I would reply that if the gay community has suffered less, that it may be largely because not every homosexual can be "sighted" as obviously gay. But I do know that in WWII's Europe, along with Jews, the disabled, Poles, and Gypsies, thousands of gay men were cruelly experimented on and exterminated in concentration camps. In this country, gays have been lynched, experienced police brutality, been the targets of hate speech, and been discriminated against in health care and in the work force: all of these are injustices experienced by other minority groups that have also called out for delivery of their civil rights.

And I would ask any who read this to consider the civil right of an adult citizen to contract; an important right that was also denied the Black community for so long. Because, more than a personal covenant between two adults, in the eyes of the State marriage is also a legally binding contract. Moral codes aside, I stand by the law in saying that all should be afforded every civil right or else, who is safe from exclusion?

In the spiritual realm it is surely up to religious leaders to decide whatever they will about the kinds of marriages allowed among their adherents. I will not criticize a church's protest to gay marriage within its walls. I will always defend one's right to moral ideals and religious convictions within their church and family life. But when it comes to law-making I believe in equality in the eyes of the Law, and I would hate to see the concept of Free Will pushed aside in favor of laws that would morally regulate behavior, forcing people to make right choices without knowing why, without being able to see the morality of one path over another.

Finally, instead of making new laws to exclude people whose behaviors we fear would damage society as a whole, I would urge every mother and father, raise your children well. Make them strong in faith and understanding. Start with your own home to build a community and a society that is so strong that you need not fear giving full rights to every citizen in it.

2008-06-16 17:03 Permalink Reply

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Stacy


California



But if California makes same-sex marriage legal,the schools will be required to start teaching children at age 5 that homosexual marriage is okay. Isn't that for parents to decide? That takes away a certain freedom of religious beliefs. Churches will also be able to be sued for not allowing same-sex weddings in their chapels. In Canada where they have legalized it, churches have lost tax-exempt status for only preaching that homosexuality was wrong. In Massachusetts, the Catholic church had to close down their adoption services because otherwise they were going to be forced to place their children in homes with homosexual parents. Gays have the same legal and financial rights already under civil unions. But actually making it legal will surely take away the rights to freely believe in right and wrong concerning this matter.

2008-08-11 16:38 Permalink Reply

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Debbie


Utah



Marriage is a right and it is offered to ALL human beings! it has already been defined since the beginning of time and now we only want to uphold that right! I can't believe we are even having this discussion!!!! MARRIAGE is between a man and a woman. It always has been! If two men or two women want play at marriage, then give it a different name but don't try to put it under the sacred title of Marriage!

2008-08-18 01:21 Permalink Reply

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Michael Clark


Currently in Utah.



I find myself surprised by your argument on the basis of freedom to contract, and of free will.

First off -- in no way are the members of the homosexual community denied the right to contract, as was the black community. Nor can they be prevented from entering into a marriage-like contract at will. The issue, as you said, is free will. The power to decide lies in the hands of the voters -- the decision regarding if the government should _ratify_ this contract which has been made. The right to form contracts has not been denied. The right to choose is upheld -- for _both_ parties.

2008-08-16 02:29 Permalink Reply

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Aaron Lewis


CA



Caitlin Duncan states that "I would hate to see the concept of Free Will pushed aside in favor of laws that would morally regulate behavior, forcing people to make right choices without knowing why..."

This concept is laughable! What are the laws against murder, stealing, obstruction of justice, running a red light, and virtually every other criminal offense for, then? THE PURPOSE OF OUR LAWS IS TO MORALLY REGULATE BEHAVIOR. To do so otherwise would be to have anarchy. The sad thing is that's the path we're slowly heading towards with all this politically-correct nonsense. We have to allow anyone to do anything without even a criticism. If there are no standards, our society will crumble within just a few generations.

2008-09-07 01:18 Permalink Reply

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Ken


Pennsylvania



I enjoyed reading a rational, articulate opposition to gay marriage that did not rely on bias and bigotry. However, the article failed on one enormous point:
You fail to quantify statements that there is correlation between single-sex parents and degenerate children. Studies? Citations? Show me some evidence for your claims.

2008-06-18 18:10 Permalink Reply

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Bravo! This article voices many of the concerns people have for allowing gay "marriages" and the impact such unions will have on society. I believe too many people oversimplify the issue by only thinking about the homosexuals who want to get "married" and fail to consider the impact gay "marriage" will have on children.

Heterosexuals, homosexuals, and friends of homosexuals must make their decisions on this issue not based on the desires of adults, but on the needs of children. Well done.

2008-06-20 05:33 Permalink Reply

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Holly


Indiana



Thank you for being unapologetic and thorough with your argument. The issue is not about being against homosexuals as human beings worthy of dignity and respect (for they certainly are), or even really about whether one believes in the morality of homosexual relationships. This is about the family, what our society--and every society--is founded on. The success of the family, with a father and mother at the head, is what leads to success in every other aspect of a happy life. Children have a right to a father and a mother both, and because they don't have a choice in the matter, the responsibility--and accountability--falls to the rest of us.

Adults must work with children in mind. Too often today, men and women are more concerned with their own happiness than the wellbeing of children. It seems all too apparent that, little by little, the family unit is deteriorating. It is scorned and belittled, and we are suffering the consequences. If we continue to allow it to suffer, if we try to redefine the natural family as supported by nature and God, things will only get worse. That is why I cannot support homosexual marriage. I support the family.

Thank you for the article.

2008-07-29 17:37 Permalink Reply

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Emma Merrell


California



"• Others argue that it’s unfair that married couples have benefits others don’t....But marriage is not a bundle of government benefits...."

Which is really the only reason that being married has any benefits over domestic partnerships. Legally re-defining marriage can't help that. The California government treats domestic partnerships the same:

California Family Code section 297.5. (a) states the following:

"Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights,protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the sameresponsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses."

2008-08-15 14:02 Permalink Reply

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Jesse


Los Angeles



Reading this has actually made me rethink the issue of gay marriage. I was kind of faced with the fact that when a set of consice rational arguements are layed out it really boils down to baseless assumptions of gender and tradition. How can I accept that something should be legal just because it has never before been incorporated into a society's laws before? Why should I assume that a child is "denied a parent" based on very Western gender roles (please read some more anthropology-- fathers and mothers are defined in a NUMBER of ways)? Why should I accept that a low divorce rate is better when historically, this was indicative of oppressing women? True, the divorce statistics you cited from Sweden are very likely not linked to that form of discrimination, but I'm suspicious of your sources for these statistics...As disappointed as I was in the lack of "meat" I expected to find, I am actually really glad I read this piece.

2008-08-16 14:42 Permalink Reply

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Jonathan


California



I too am glad I read this article! Thank you for your thoughtfulness and thorough research.

It seems rather selfish for a small few to thrust their chosen lifestyle onto another, especially when there is nothing to be gained but to spite and harm those who have not chosen the same lifestyle.

In my understanding, this is exactly what would happen if Prop 8 were to fail. Domestic Partnerships, whether they be romantic or otherwise (yes, there are other reasons for domestic partnerships), by law are already entitled to ALL the same rights as a traditional marriage. This being stated, what other reason is afforded to having marriage defined differently than what is already accepted?



2008-08-25 03:37 Permalink Reply

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Sam


California



The main comment I have is that these people are in no way 'thrusting their chosen lifestyle upon you'. Since the gay marriage ruling has overturned, how have you been affected? Have you been 'harmed' in any way as you so claim? Last time I checked, gay marriage affected only homosexuals, and has had absolutely no effect on anyone else. So please, tell me, how have they harmed you?

2008-08-26 13:05 Permalink Reply

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Joel


Los Angeles, CA



Honor your father and your mother, so that your days may be long in the land that the Lord your God is giving you.

How are the children of "same sex marriages" going to handle the above Commandment?

Woe to those who call evil good and good evil. Is.5:20

Woe to those who exchange the truth of God for a lie...who switch the labels to make sin appear to be less offensive..who call lying...exaggeration, unbelief...worry, murder...a right to choose, abomination....gay, fornication....safe sex. Woe to you.

21 And others will he pacify, and lull them away into carnal security, that they will say: All is well in Zion; yea, Zion prospereth, all is well—and thus the devil cheateth their souls, and leadeth them away carefully down to hell.

I encourage us all to follow the patterns and words of God.

2008-08-25 09:38 Permalink Reply

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Luke


California, San Diego



I would be considered by most people to be gay. Do I like sex with other men? Yep. Do I like to look at other men in the showers? Yep. I don't have a lisp, and really that whole feminine acting thing is a turn off for me, but really, to each their own, eh?

Now that I've established that, I approve of Prop 8. As the original author wrote, marriage really should be about the children. If two people want to declare their undying love towards each other, they don't need a ceremony, rings, and cake to do so. (metaphorically speaking of course) I find that more simple things work better.

In the end though, being one who came from a traditional family, I believe that a person needs a Mom and a Dad because I go to each for different things.

2008-08-26 01:16 Permalink Reply

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Jared


California



Even though it is very unpopular and politically incorrect to say, I still believe that there are things that are RIGHT and there are things that are WRONG. I know that I can't use this in a debate or court of law, but I don't want to get intellectual right now.

There are values that must be sustained.

Prop 8 here in California is really a defining moment for us who believe this. We need to stand up for what we believe in and get involved!

America is a special place in the world. Its very founding was based upon principles...lasting values. The family unit is the very fabric of society. Those of us who believe this must get involved in this issue!

If we change the definition of marriage, school curriculum will change, media and entertainment will change, social morality will change.

2008-08-28 04:44 Permalink Reply

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Max




You seem to hint that your moral basis for invalidating gay marriage is on religion. One of its most important founding principles was freedom of religion. If some people believe that gay marriage should be allowed, should you persecute them based on beliefs defined by a specific religion? If your opinion is not formed on the basis of religion, would you kindly enlighten us where it is grounded?

2008-09-01 18:10 Permalink Reply

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Emily


Norwalk, California



All this change you foresee, Jared, seems aptly necessary, don't you think? School curriculum, media, entertainment, social morality? You say that "there are things that are RIGHT and there are things that are WRONG," but unless you're living in another universe, you should be aware that all those things you've listed are severely flawed. The possibility of change on each of those levels should be welcomed, not feared.

2008-09-05 18:58 Permalink Reply

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Michelle


San Diego



You might be interested to know Emily and Max and those who argue that we are not "harmed" by the redefining of marriage by the minority that the schools are already impacted. High school students are already being taught that same-sex relationships are natural and appropriate and they are not permitted to express a view that opposes such teaching. Who is oppressing whom with their "beliefs"
If I disagree with homosexual behavior it is called "hate speech" but they can sue my religion for not condoning their behavior. Black civil rights was not about "behavior", but Homosexuals have turned their "behavior" into a civil rights issue and slowing draining our right to disagree with their choices.
The following article does have documentation and is very good:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46887

"How 'gay rights' Is Being Sold to America" from The Marketing of Evil by David Kupelian

2008-09-12 17:23 Permalink Reply

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lucas


san diego



i believe the natural bond that forms between a man and a woman goes well beyond words or description. This special relationship is about a union of souls meant to nurture and care for each other, meeting each others needs, and in essence, completing one another. wonderful physical pleasures are a biproduct of this all ecompassing male/female union. the end result is an undeniable fact: procreation, the continuation of life! I believe the bonds formed by gay/lesbian couples to be a less important bond than that of a man and a woman. while these relationships are formed with love and physical desire, they are really catering only to the desires of the two involved, and if the norm, the human race would become extinct. it is the glorius and incomparable bond between a male and female which replenishes the earth.

2008-08-29 06:50 Permalink Reply

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Emily


Washington



It is also the glorious and incomparable bond between a male and female which overpopulates the earth. If we are not open to changing the way our population grows, we will run out of the resources that we already seem incapable of using to care for each other. Human extinction is not a reasonable concern.

2008-09-20 19:52 Permalink Reply

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Michael


Mountain View, CA



Regardless of what "our" opinions, views, and data might say, which is not worth the dust we were created out of, God has the final say....."marriage is between a man and a woman". God does not change for He is the same yesterday, today and always. In the end as we stand before Him only our adherence to His word and whether we were covered by the blood of Jesus will count. God Bless.

2008-08-29 12:21 Permalink Reply

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Joseph


Camarillo, CA



Thank you for a well articulated argument that leaves religion and other devisive tones at the door.

What struck me was your point about how we've allowed society to place the needs of adults above children. I believe that this is fundamental point that needs to be articulated, understood and grasped. At so many levels, we are failing our collective children. We have created political, legal, social and financial structures that favor the short-term and immediate and fail to look at the "big picture".

One simple example is the national debt. If our children (and their children) were first and foremost in our thinking, would we tolerate the growing budget deficits in our country and in many states?

It is a shame that we have to legislate the definition of marriage, which has forever been understood to be between one man and one woman.

California voters, please vote in November!!

Peace.

2008-09-02 00:00 Permalink Reply

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T


USA



While this shone a new light on some of the issues with same-sex marriage, the arguments still did not seem complete.

I would like, for one, to hear more about the studies of different family structures effects on children. Gender dynamics are only one factor of the household. In a single parent household the issue is more than about the singularity of parental gender. Single parents many times have to work harder and longer hours to support their family. They may also be depressed, lonely and tired even when around their children, which can have great effects. Even if there is another adult figure around, children can also have feelings of resentment or abandonment. Further, gender would then need to be accountable in sibling relations.

I think that parenting quality should be taken more into account than the family gender dynamics.

2008-09-02 03:50 Permalink Reply

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Ken


California



I agree with T, that this issue, while clear to me, should be examined further before it is allowed to become an accepted part of our society. We just don't know enough about the effects on society and children to allow it to happen yet, and I believe that once the truth is widely known, there will be few advocates of same sex marriage.

2008-09-02 18:43 Permalink Reply

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Todd


California



Chris,

So glad to hear someone express what is being overlooked in this whole argument: The long term ramifications of same sex marriage on children and the stability of society. Once the door is opened, it cannot be closed therefore it is imperative that same-sex longitudinal be carefully considered before such major changes.

2008-09-03 00:42 Permalink Reply

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LJ


california



you guys are completely missing the point here.

gay people do not want to be marginalized by society by having to accept the bonds of matrimony by any other word. if the terminology "marriage" is good enough for straight people, it should be good enough for gay people, because we should strive to be a society that does not discriminate based on sexual orientation.

separate is not equal!! even if, through an equivalent union, gay people received the same legal rights as their straight counterparts, it would not be enough. why should we single them out by forcing them to use separate terminology for their own "marriage"?? because christianity says so?? because they cannot procreate?? or is it because we have become a homophobic society that cringes at the thought of letting the gays in on our "heterosexuals only" marriage ritual.

prop 8 and everything that it stands for sickens me. vote no.

2008-09-03 02:40 Permalink Reply

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Om


USA



The problem I have with LJ's statement is the idea that somehow, the idea of heterosexual marriage is a new concept that has come about recently as a result of homophobia.

Ancient Greek society, on which our democratic republic is partially based, was very accepting and even encouraging of homosexual relations, but that they never considered homosexuality an alternative to heterosexual marriage. In addition, some northern Native American societies also accepted homosexuality, and again, it was not considered a viable alternative to heterosexual marriage.

I guess this is the miracle of living in a democracy - in November, California will vote and decide what the people want.

2008-09-08 10:10 Permalink Reply

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Tara


Toronto



The arguments contain many flaws:
1) although there is restrictions on the institution of marriage at various times, is generally based on the idea of "consent"- if two people can be married if they can consent to be married, which rules out children and animals, or for the purposes of consanguity.
2) marriage is more than child rearing- an important purpose certainly, but not the sole purpose. No one would deny a marriage between two 60 year olds is legitimate because child conception is impossible.
3) it is absurd to link no-fault divorce with gay marriage; the two are conceptually distinct and gay marriage should have no effect on a heterosexual marriage, unlike no-fault divorce.
4)The problems associated with absentee fathers are related heavily with poverty, lack of involved parenting, and the experience of living in a conflicted household. Having two same sex parents will solve many of these problems.

2008-09-06 17:51 Permalink Reply

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Teddy


Canada



Great article. It's hard to find a well written piece like this online these days.

2008-09-06 18:46 Permalink Reply

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Jennifer


California



I agree completely. This is a very big step in our society. Same sex marriages is a very controversial topic and i believe should be outlawed. Its immoral and should not be legal. People say its their right to marry the person they love, but why do you need to marry someone to be in love with them? There are more ways to express love then being married. Just being homosexual makes you against the main doctrine of the Christian religion, so why would you want them to combine you in holy matrimony? This is the wrong move for California and we need to nip it in the butt, now!

2008-09-07 02:06 Permalink Reply

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Jennifer


Los Angeles



Fine, if you, Jennifer, want to get married, you are not allowed to do so unless you have children okay? If you happen to be unable to have biological children, you must adopt. What if you husband dies? How can you be a mother without really being a REAL mother. Oh wait, us gay people have been trying to adopt children who do not have parents since forever. Is it immoral to intentionally allow a child to be hated because she/he has gay parents? Or is it society that traumatizes them? Your argument has no basis. Whole proof of successful gay parenting will not come until there is societal biological understanding comes. As an open-minded gay person I wouldn't mind having sex with a man to help society grow if an apocalypse occurs and there are only two people on earth - however I wouldn't marry him.

2008-09-22 04:09 Permalink Reply

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Jill


CA



I'm voting No on Prop 8 for many reasons... The most important ones being its for equality... The second being that the day heterosexual married couples treat the sanctity of marriage with proper respect is the day that I will vote yes on Prop 8!! By sanctity I mean no more cheating, no more divorce, etc... Male-female marriages are made a mockery of on a daily basis... If its about religion, let that be between them and God, not us and them...
This coming from a heterosexual happily married woman wanting equal rights and privileges for everyone!!

2008-09-09 01:20 Permalink Reply

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Nathan


Indiana



Jill...I'm confused. You're saying you would tell gays they couldn't marry if heterosexuals took it seriously? That makes no sense. One thing I worry aobut is, if you think heteros are so bad at marriage, what do you think homosexual marriages will be like?

Great article, love the idea that it's about the children. That's something I think everyone has forgotten.

2008-09-10 14:26 Permalink Reply

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Jay


Leesburg, VA



In order for a marriage to be considered legal, a couple must go and file their licence in a courthouse. That act alone makes marriage a civil act, and to not allow me to do so makes it a denial of my partner and my civil rights.

My sister said it best: when she and her husband were getting married, the pastor conducting the ceremony had some concerns about the 27 year age difference between the two of them. He agreed to do the ceremony after counseling them, but had he not, they could have gone to the county courthouse and still gotten married, and said marriage is legal.

If you want to make marriage strictly about morality, history, and religion, then no-fault divorce should not be available either.

However, to deny us the right to be legally joined is separate, unequal & wrong.

2008-09-10 22:57 Permalink Reply

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Cathy


California



Interesting comments... but I must say, what about STD's.and AIDS? Yes, I understand they are not unique to homosexuality. But the truth is any sexually immoral act whether it be homosexuality or cheating on your spouse or having multiple partners can bring these deadly diseases. There is still no cure. Why aren't we speaking out on all of these things.

I read a medical study a few years back about the reason for AIDS, in simple terms, the human body was not designed to receive seed the way a female body was. It is unnatural to the body and makes the homosexual person at risk.

The point is why would we encourage this behavior in our children by promoting it in our civil laws? It just isn't logical. It is bad for society. Apparently, God already knew that and designed marriage for between one man & woman

2008-09-14 10:30 Permalink Reply

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Cathy


California



I am for sure voting yes on Prop 8. All immoral behavior should be discouraged in society. The health risk alone should be enough to stop the passing of a civil law in favor of homosexuality. In fact I would like to see more severe penalties put in place for cheating with heterosexual couples. Many families suffer for this one crime. Culture bears the burden for all of the single family homes and children raised w/o both parents. It doesn't help to approve an even more susceptible partnership.

2008-09-14 10:38 Permalink Reply

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Aaron


Alabama



Whatever the merits of the rest of this article, I would strongly encourage leaving out the Jesse Jackson quote at the beginning, as it strongly undermines the idea that "homosexuals are equal citizens who deserve to be treated with dignity." Just because homosexuals have not had the same history as African Americans and women in the United States, does not mean that we can ignore any civil rights question that may come up surrounding homosexuals.
That said, this article does raise some interesting points.

2008-09-17 23:40 Permalink Reply

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Elizabeth


California



The number of heterosexual married couples who choose not to have children is high and growing. How do they work into the argument that marriage is primarily about children? If this were true, why not confer the legal status and benefits of marriage only to couples who have children? This is a disingenuous argument that does not hold up under scrutiny.

2008-09-18 17:25 Permalink Reply

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Susan


Arizona



If the same-sex marriage law is approved, the schools will have to teach that it's okay, churches who do not believe in or support homosexuality will not be allowed to teach the children why it's wrong. if the law is approved, CHURCHES WILL NOT BE ALLOWED TO TEACH THE CHILDREN THAT HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG! that is taking away our freedom of religion, something that has been fought for too much and for too long for us to give up on it now!

2008-09-20 23:32 Permalink Reply

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Enoch


Los Angeles ca



This is a very well though out article. It shows real reasons why the author feels this way!

2008-09-23 19:20 Permalink Reply

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ISL


UK



A good article and one which should be applauded.

My only question is how would you feel if you were brought up in a same sex marriage?

When you fall and hurt yourself who would you turn to in a same sex marriage? When you are emotional and need a shoulder to cry on, who would you turn to?

2008-09-24 11:43 Permalink Reply

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Dr. Steve


Smith


Indianapolis, IN


I personally agree with the article, but it lacks a convincing base without a bibliography page to support the claims of "what the research clearly states." Most of us who are Christians and study this issue in an academic setting are disturbed by claims of what research says without a clear point of reference. For example, two studies about which I am familiar state very clearly that there is no basis for strong opinion about child rearing outcomes of gay couples because there is not a volume of research which supports one position or another.

The argument is weakened without specific findings. That is disappointing.

2012-05-10 11:51 Permalink Reply

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John


Hendrickson


Middletown NJ


I cannot understand a Christian making pragmatic arguments such as it is saying sodomite marriage is "An Untested Social Experiment...How do we know if this will be good for children, adults, and the community? No society has ever reared a generation of children in same-sex homes, so we can’t really know how it will affect children."

Such argumentation concedes that if there is no observed detrimental effect then we should be ready to accept it.

What about the plain and simple authority of God's Word? He has defined marriage as between one man and one woman. Many people instinctively know it is unnatural. But sin causes them to reject that truth God put in them. Which is why we cannot appeal to any other authority than God's Word.

To subject our acceptance of sodomite marriage to any other standard--such as just mentioned--denies our submission to God's authoritative Word.

2012-05-10 21:08 Permalink Reply

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Bill


M.


Virginia


John H. of NJ: I was about to reply with a similar comment as yours. While we can and will conduct research along these lines in order to discover the truth of God's creation; moral law ought not, must not, cannot be established in a society in accordance to our current scientific or research knowledge base. To do so would be to society's peril. Our children deserve better of us and our LORD demands it.

2012-05-11 09:46 Permalink Reply

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John


Freeman


Philadelphia PA


Very balanced and biblical article. Of course marriage being God's idea and instituted of him carries a lot of weight to the arguments. Unfortunately, marraige is a civil act and one involving state and federal law. Secular government really can, unfortunately, define marriage any way it wants, although they can never define biblical marriage-- or mirror it.

John Stott, in his book, Why Homosexual Partnerhips Are Not a Christian Option, states that you can have all kind of unions (and sanctioned unions) but only a union between a man and woman can be a biblical union---because it's (in the nature of the sexual intercourse) not so much a union as a "re-union" of what was originally one. Sex is a celebatory act of two becoming 'one' again temporarily. Two people of the same sex can't do that, biblically speaking.

2012-05-11 15:15 Permalink Reply

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alison


Fontenot


louisiana


My religion teaches that sexual relations must be both unitive and procreative and be preceded by a life-long commitment before God and two witnesses. The contraceptive mentality that separates the procreative nature of sex has broken down the family unit, created a culture of impoverished single parent families and opened the door for the destruction of society.

2012-05-12 01:07 Permalink Reply

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william


ridenour


dallas, tx


This article presents more than enough to at least justify caution on this issue, rather than rush headlong into it as the present political flavor of the day. (If proponents win their arguments there is no doubt in my mind polygamy will come next, and there will be no compelling objective reason for prohibiting it either).
Many will deny the slippery slope, but it is more inevitable if gay marriage is accepted than tomorrow's sunrise.
But I will let that go, and say only this: a society that does not protect its' children by putting hedges and protections around the primary institution that nurtures, forms and protects the children (marriage), has put its' very self in danger of internal disintegration and ultimate collapse.
Proceed with caution.

2012-05-13 13:07 Permalink Reply

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Peter


Froehlich


FL


Where did all these people come from? I smell a rat! The well organized gender obliteration movement certainly put out the word about this ariticle. How else would have so many responses from avowed homosexuals? No civilization has survived once the heterosexual marriage institution was abandoned.

2012-05-15 06:53 Permalink Reply

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John


Freeman


Philadelphia


A rat? Maybe not. Working in a PCA Mercy Ministry dealing with those struggling with these issues, (Harvest USA) I'm convinced we have many people in our own churches dealing with this-- including some who don't "struggle", but simply live silent and secret gay lives. We also have many more, primarily, the 30-and-under age group, who are extremely sympathetic to the gay movement and supportive of gay marriage. A bigger question, and perhaps one needing more explanation, is why this is true. I personally believe it's because our churches have operated under a "this isn't our issue" --and in it's silence and vacuum of educating our people and youth, has opened the door for the education to come from somewhere else. And it has!

2012-05-16 14:20 Permalink Reply

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Todd


Chapman


MT


I echo the dissapointment in a lack of bibliography. While I agree with the points the article makes, it would be nice to have clearly cited sources.

However, in lieu of cited sources I will say that strengthening marriage and family--as currently defined--is the only viable option for preventing social ills like divorce, poverty, etc.

The weakening of families is the cause, nearly everything else we see is effect.

And I think it's ok to stand by that without a body of research proving that children reared by homosexual parents aren't as well off--research may prove otherwise. Even if it did prove otherwise, it wouldn't change that the argument concerning gay-marriage centers around faith in the traditional family as divienly appointed and therefore worth defending. And that may mean looking proponents of gay-marriage in the eye and saying,"I see/hear you, and I still say no to gay marriage."

2012-05-16 18:47 Permalink Reply

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