Central Carolina Presbytery Overtures General Assembly to Prohibit Deaconesses
The issue of women’s roles in the church is headed back to General Assembly (GA) for a third time. With Overture 2, Central Carolina Presbytery is asking the 2010 Assembly to amend the Book of Church Order to prohibit deaconesses.
Currently, the Book of Church Order (BCO) 9-7 allows for women to “assist the deacons in caring for the sick, the widows, the orphans, the prisoners, and others who may be in any distress or need.” Central Carolina seeks to add a sentence to BCO 9-7 that would further distinguish between these assistants and the deacons themselves.
The proposed addition reads: “These assistants to the deacons shall not be referred to as deacons or deaconesses, nor are they to be elected by the congregation nor formally commissioned, ordained, or installed as though they were office bearers in the church.”
Andrew Webb, pastor of Providence Presbyterian Church in Fayetteville, N.C., and author of Overture 2, says that misuse of BCO 9-7 is the reason further clarification is needed. “[BCO 9-7] is now being used as a loophole to allow women to be elected as deacons,” Webb said, asserting that this was not the section’s original intention. “The issue is, in essence, unresolved in our denomination. We need to come to a place where we come to a decision one way or another.”
Overture 2 follows a number of other General Assembly overtures related to deaconesses. In 2008, Overture 9 requested a study committee on deaconesses. The Assembly answered in the negative, reminding presbyteries “that appropriate ways to bring issues before the Assembly are through presbytery overtures to amend the BCO, or by way of reference … .” In 2009, two overtures asked that a study committee be formed to study women’s roles in PCA churches. They were both rejected.
Webb says he is concerned about the future of the denomination. "If you look at the new generation of pastors, they tend to lean towards egalitarianism." Webb points to this trend as being in line with the direction of the evangelical church. “If we follow evangelicalism, we will inevitably become egalitarian. What we’re trying to do is stake our claim.”
Overture 2 can be read in its entirety on the PCA website (www.pcanet.org), or by clicking here.
A list of overtures submitted to the upcoming 38th General Assembly, as well as overture guidelines and deadlines, can be found here.
Comments
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Rod
Rafetto
Philadelphia
Great way to solve the problem in our presbytery! I will support this change to the BCO.
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John
Musgrave
Clayton, NC
Good amendment, adding further clarity to BCO 9-7, which already says that assistants to the deacons are to be appointed by the Session. Additionally, it would help to eliminate confusion over the gender of our officers in the PCA. We should note well that the overture does not prohibit women from officially working regularly with the ordained, male deacons; it simply says, in effect, "Call the deacons 'deacons' and call the assistants to the deacons 'assistants to the deacons,' whether these assistants be male or female."
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Tim
Locke
Bridgewater, NJ
I don't think it will or should pass. The term "deaconness" is used throughout the church's history to refer to women who assist the deacons in their work. Even Calvin gave his women assistants that title. To forbid the title and the act of commissioning goes farther than the conservative position Ligon Duncan expressed at last years meeting. This goes too far. Farther than the Scriptural argument will allow.
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David
Williams
Fort Worth, Texas
I sympathize much with Overture 2. Nevertheless, the problem with egalitarianism is that it wants a deaconess to be a female deacon. A deaconess serves under the supervision of the Board of Deacons. It is not an order nor an ordained position. At the most it is a position of women ministering to women and children. My concern is that there are elements within the PCA that are determined to move it into egalitarianism. That is a path fraught with danger. Read "Is Evangelical Feminism the New Path to Liberalism?", JBMW 9/1 (Spring 2004) 35-84.
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Larry
Edison
Sarasota, Fl
I read this statement, and it just simply makes me sad. I find it heart-breakingly sad that there are those in the PCA that want to make us more and more narrow. More than that, to have to constantly resort to legislation in this manner is simply sad. We legislate ourselves into a narrow-oblivion to make sure everyone is in lock step conformity. If it can't be done in the context of relationships, it will get done by making more and more rules.
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Laura
Keyser
Philadelphia, PA
Thanks Larry for your words of wisdom. I am wondering why people are so afraid of women? It is very, very sad. Especially when that fear leads them to go beyond scripture to add more rules, kind of like what happened in Galatians. God have mercy on us all.
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Jason
Van Bemmel
Abingdon, MD
Who said anything about being afraid of women? That's assuming a motive, which is not helpful to cordial relations and unity in the Spirit. The BCO is pretty clear already .... This just seeks to clarify the language that already exists. Women are not feared, but a drift toward liberalism is. There is a big difference.
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Aaron
Belz
Upland, CA
So Paul can refer to Phoebe as "diakonos" but we can't even refer to female assistants to the diaconate as deaconesses? I hope the PCA's fear of looming egalitarianism won't override its faithfulness to scripture.
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John
Musgrave
Clayton, NC
If we were to believe that Scripture supports ordained, female deacons as office holders in the church, then we should change our BCO to allow it. However, we should not do so solely on the basis of Phoebe. The word "diakanon" that Paul uses in Romans 16:1 of Phoebe is the common word for "servant." That is, if I were speaking Greek and wanted to call someone--male or female--a servant, I would've had to use the word "diakonon." Similarly, someone can be my "elder" in the church in the everyday use of the term, simply by virtue of his being 80 years old. But if I were to elect that man to be my "elder" in a church environment and then have a commissioning service for him, everyone would assume that he's not just older than I, but that he now holds ordained office.
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Rick
Wheeler
SC
"Diakonos" in Greek has a much broader meaning than "deacon" in American English. We use "deacon(ess)" to refer to some sort of official position. On the other hand, we usually translate "diakonos" as "servant" when used as a description of the non-official service of a person. We should note that the controversy is not over calling these women "servants", or "assistants to the deacons". Rather, a word which in American English refers to a de facto office, is being used.
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Deanne
Hunt
Montrose, CO
Are the pastors of a "new generation", of which I which I am not a part, truly seeking egalitarianism? OR are @ least some of them seeking to help us understand & implement complementarianism, on which a good deal has been excellently written, spoken & taught within our own family?
God grant us gracious wisdom not to see a lurking feminist under every bush!
God grant us gracious wisdom not to see a lurking feminist under every bush!
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Aaron
Belz
Upland, CA
Rick, I'm aware of the equivocation between Greek and modern American usage. I suppose my remark was a little off-hand. However, there's no prohibition in scripture against churches recognizing women servants as deacons or referring to them as such. And if the PCA is scrutinizing the letter of the law in I Timothy 3, it ought to prohibit unmarried male deacons. Right?
Solzhenitsyn: "Western society has given itself the organization best suited to its purposes, based, I would say, on the letter of the law... Any conflict is solved according to the letter of the law and this is considered to be the supreme solution."
Solzhenitsyn: "Western society has given itself the organization best suited to its purposes, based, I would say, on the letter of the law... Any conflict is solved according to the letter of the law and this is considered to be the supreme solution."
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Mike
McLaughlin
Albuquerque, NM
I welcome this discussion for the purpose of bringing a close to the argument and which hopefully allow us to move on. I do not believe that it will or should pass. There is enough legitimate disagreement on the issue that there should be liberty as to its practice. Fine, godly men, have disagreed on the interpretation of 1Tim.3:11 and Romans 16:1 using the Greek that we should be more inclusive in this argument. Furthermore, slippery slope arguments against deaconesses is a logical fallacy and should be ignored.
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Becky
Haigler
Shreveport
i've only been in the PCA for three years. i love my congregation. i hope the denomination will not sideline itself with this kind of polishing the knobs on the torah scrolls. what is gender-specific about the gospel? Paul said nothing.
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Bryce
Hales
Salt Lake City, UT
The statement that "the new generation of pastors, they tend to lean towards egalitarianism" is simply wrong. I'm a 29 year old TE, and I have exactly zero TE friends who lean towards egalitarianism. Many seek a more consistently practiced complimentarianism, however. But to suggest as a rule that younger pastors are more inclined toward egalitarianism is insulting. Many of us younger pastors work amongst younger, secular non-Christians who think we are insane because we don't support the ordination of women. To then have a fellow pastor imply that we are responsible for a perceived slide towards liberalism is, at the very least, uncharitable.
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David
DeBoer
Grand Rapids
Brethren,
I hope you won't mind if a non-PCA brother offers his two cents on this issue.
My wife and I left the CRC over the issue of women officers. I still remember being told by my pastor then that we were being needlessly alarmist when we spoke to him about our concerns over this issue. He told us there was nothing to worry about, but as it turns out there was plenty and its too late to do anything about it now.
Please remember too that you have brethren in the URCNA and the OPC who also don't believe in the office of deaconess, so be careful when you say that position isn't being faithful to scripture.
I hope you won't mind if a non-PCA brother offers his two cents on this issue.
My wife and I left the CRC over the issue of women officers. I still remember being told by my pastor then that we were being needlessly alarmist when we spoke to him about our concerns over this issue. He told us there was nothing to worry about, but as it turns out there was plenty and its too late to do anything about it now.
Please remember too that you have brethren in the URCNA and the OPC who also don't believe in the office of deaconess, so be careful when you say that position isn't being faithful to scripture.
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John
Freeman
Philadelphia, PA
Fear is a terrible motivator and ultimately leads to abuse and crippling. My wife often tells me that when I'm afraid, bad things come out of my mouth and everyone around me suffers because of it. Maybe it's time we start admitting honestly what we're "afraid of", namely the watering-down of our churches theologically so we find ourselves in the same place as other mainline denominations now. We fear if we do or allow "A" that "B" will normally follow. That need not happen, however, if we continue to be led through strong male servanthood leadership in our pulpits and our sessions. Now if we're afraid there , that's another issue, but its not about commissioning or ordaining female deacons.
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Dan
Perkins
Muncie,IN
The current wording of the BCO is fine as it it. There is no reason to ammend it.
Churches commission missions groups and such, why the worry over commissioning or electing someone to be a diaconal assistant. Actually even ordaning them as DIACONAL ASSISTANTS should not be bad. We misuse the word "ordain" to often to mean something that it was never intended to mean.
The current wording of the BCO is a good compromise on a situation that is not terribly clear in scripture. Paul makes it absolutely clear that women play a role inthe diaconal ministry but not the level to which that role is taken.
In the PCA we use the word complimentarianism to talk about the different roles of the people in the church, but it should NEVER be an excuse to treat somebody as less than someone else which is what this overture appears to do.
Churches commission missions groups and such, why the worry over commissioning or electing someone to be a diaconal assistant. Actually even ordaning them as DIACONAL ASSISTANTS should not be bad. We misuse the word "ordain" to often to mean something that it was never intended to mean.
The current wording of the BCO is a good compromise on a situation that is not terribly clear in scripture. Paul makes it absolutely clear that women play a role inthe diaconal ministry but not the level to which that role is taken.
In the PCA we use the word complimentarianism to talk about the different roles of the people in the church, but it should NEVER be an excuse to treat somebody as less than someone else which is what this overture appears to do.
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Donald
Codling
Lower Sackville, NS
This is a bad idea. If you are afraid your car is going to slide into the ditch on the left side of the road, the answer is not to turn into the ditch on the right side. Rather, you steer down the road. The answer to feminism is not to put up fences all over the place restricting women from this or that, especially from any formal recognition. The answer is to use women's gifts (and men's) thoroughly in appropriate ways. This overture is steering us into the ditch on the other side of the road. It's effect will be to encourage a feminist style reaction.
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Marcus
Toole
Alberta
I too am concerned about a trend towards liberalism but using legislation to stem the tide of liberalism is futile. The basic rule of all living things is that the group that reproduces wins. The best way to stem the tied to liberalism is to invest your energy into reproduction through the development of like minded future leaders and churches through evangelism, descipleship, theological education and church planting. If it is true that the young pastors gravitate toward egalitarianism, changing the BCO is futile, because as soon as the older guys die out the younger folks will simply change the BCO to suit their liking. Only changing the nature of young pastors, elders and new church plants will insure the future faithfulness of the PCA if it is true that the current crop of new pastors are tending toward egalitarianism.
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Dale
Buettner
York, PA
Rev. Webb's comments truly sadden me. The writers of this overture, and the many who concur with it, need to accept the fact that the PCA is changing, and that this is a good thing. The younger generation of pastors' refusal to be rigid and narrow does not make them liberals or egalitarians, and one should be very careful about implying that they lean that way. Many of us are tired of the litigious tone that is present in these types of overtures, and are hesitant to let our churches know that such debates are taking place at General Assembly when the majority of our people are wrestling with much more serious questions about the Christian faith, many of which are not even fully addressed in the BCO or the Westminster Standards. I love the brothers of Central Carolina, but this overture is a bad idea.
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Mary
Robinson
Boise, ID
Been raised in the South, been in legalistic churches, lived in the West:"prohibit" does make it sound like fear. Legalism is born out of fear. The issue as I understand is "Ordination". The wording should be, "Deaconesses will assist Deacons, but will not be ordained, do not need to be ordained, and the title is not meant to overpower the authority of the Session or any other Godly Male Head in the church." Why is this so hard?????
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Andrew
Barnes
MS
Just a clarification question if the issue is ordination as you say, if you say the wording should be 'deaconesses will assist deacons' then what do you do with those men who assist the deacons? You can't call them deacons. Deacons would refer to the office and therefore one of which a man is ordained. So to call women assistants deaconess doesn't seem to line up. Perhaps all who are assistants should be called assistants to the deacons and we should stop worrying about the need or lack of need, in this case, of a title being given.
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Dale
Buettner
York, PA
One of the many reasons I love the PCA is that it gives each church freedom in matters where the Scripture allows freedom. Let's keep that up! To prohibit a practice such as this one not only goes beyond Scripture, particularly in light of Romans 14 & 15 and all of Galatians, but it seeks to force every church to conform to the preferences of a few. Even if this overture passes it will not prohibit women from publicly reading Scripture or serving communion, both of which are currently allowable in the PCA. We do both in my church, but we would never seek to force such practices on churches that do not.
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Lynn
Andrew
Monroe
So you allow women to "assist" the deacons (let them do everything the deacons do) just don't make it any official word and call them deacons. Seems to me its splitting hairs and demeaning women.
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Mike
Hsu
Lincoln, NE
This overture misses the central issue in the PCA, which is not whether we have deaconesses in our churches or not, but rather that they NOT be ordained after the model of Acts 6 and given a kind of charge/oversight to lead with authority. Even L. Duncan who represents the majority position wrote in his Aug. 2008 paper (near the end), "“.... That women assisted the deacons in their ministry is uncontested and incontestable, and is corroborated by patristic and reformation era testimony. So the real question we ought to be asking is not ‘Should we have ordained female deacons, or deaconesses?’ but rather ‘What kind of deaconess, or female diaconal assistant, does the New Testament authorize and the best testimony of church history and historic Reformed polity?'" Also, see 1988 OPC paper by Reynolds, "Phoebe was a Deaconess But Not Ordained."
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Jim
Urish
Colorado Springs, CO
George Santayana (not to be confused with Carlos) said, "Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it." The idea that a slippery slope argument is a logical fallacy, can, I suppose, sometimes be fallacious. In the case of the demise of orthodox Presbyterianism, there has been a repeated slippery slope. It happened first in the Northern Presbyterian church and then later in the Southern Presbyterian church. The pattern was the same - the liberalizing of what Scripture was saying generally, but also included an expanding role of women in the life of the church. That led eventually to formal office-holding. That is why, in part, the PCA was formed. Do we want to go down that road again? I say no!
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Charlie
Rodriguez
Clinton, MS
Déjà vu all over again, brothers, or for those in Rio Linda: "An experience usually accompanied by a compelling sense of familiarity, and also a sense of eeriness, strangeness, or weirdness." Lig and Tim, we need you back again this Summer. Seriously, you set a wonderful example for us all during the debate, and a repeat performance would be a blessing.
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Christopher
Faria
Colorado Springs, CO
While I appreciated the Christ-like demeanor at GA between Ligon Duncan and Tim Kellar it seems to me that Ligon won the "debate" on facts, but Kellar won the hearts. The great sin against postmodernists is to appear to be "not nice" or unkind. Yet I have seen little to no discussion about what Ligon DID say- the term "deaconess" not used in the church until the 4th century, his explanation of diakonos, etc. What I did hear from Tim was "well, you might as well do it since they're going to do it anyway." I think this discussion is getting warn out. Let's support Central Carolina's overture and get on with the mission of the church
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Mike
Hsu
Lincoln, NE
Gregory Reynolds wrote a paper for the OPC Committee on Women in Ordained Office in 1988 (Aug-Sept, New Horizons of the OPC, Vol. 9, No. 7) where he says, “The question before our church is not whether or not women should be performing dicaconal work, but rather whether or not women should be ordained to the special office of the NT deacon. The work of deaconing is not the issue. Who should lead in this work is the question before us. Therefore the point at issue is the nature and authority of the NT office of deacon.” The central issue is not whether women should function as deaconesses in the church but rather whether they should be ordained to the special office of deacon that holds authority to take “responsibility” over (Acts 6:3) diaconal work. Again, this Overture misses the central issue.
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K.
Thomas
Amarillo
If deaconesses will not have authority and headship over men, then why have the title? Titles come with authority, over someone, somewhere.
Do we do service for the church in order to receive recognition? Is our work invalidated because we are not called "deaconesses." I don't do my job as a mother in order to receive recognition. I do it because I love it. Likewise, we should serve the church because that is what we are called to do as believers and not because we seek the esteem of others.
Women, as well as men, ought to be thanked for their service to the church. The church as a whole does a poor job of this. But a title alone will not guarantee true appreciation.
I am concerned about the deeper heart issues involved in this entire discussion.
Do we do service for the church in order to receive recognition? Is our work invalidated because we are not called "deaconesses." I don't do my job as a mother in order to receive recognition. I do it because I love it. Likewise, we should serve the church because that is what we are called to do as believers and not because we seek the esteem of others.
Women, as well as men, ought to be thanked for their service to the church. The church as a whole does a poor job of this. But a title alone will not guarantee true appreciation.
I am concerned about the deeper heart issues involved in this entire discussion.
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Doug
Falls
Charlotte, NC
To touch on the slippery slope concern once again, the mainline Presbyteryian denominations went down their paths, including the roles given to women, because of their low, liberalized view of Scripture. Our debate is occuring because of our high view of Scripture. All the arguments (I've heard anyway) on either side of this issue have been based on one's understanding of Scripture so I don't see how this could be taking a step on the slippery slope. Obviously, we could end up being out of step with Scripture, but what if we are out of step with Scripture already? Not to say that we are, but continually going back to the Scriptures is the essence of Semper Reformanda so why not on this important issue?
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Deanne
Hunt
Montrose, CO
Thank you for your comment, Bryce Hales! I, your sister in Christ, say "May your tribe increase"!
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Grant
Helms
Florida
What's the point of going back to scripture Doug when we can't even get a clear understanding of diakonos? Heck, most don't even have a clear understanding of the Gospel of Grace. Hence, all this legalism in the PCA. We have women scripture readers in my PCA church (and this was approved by our Presbytery). Heretics we are!
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Deborah
Martin
Greenville SC
A rightly functioning WIC,women in the church, is fulfilling this area of service without the issue of ordination WIC was started at the beginning of the PCA. Why are we re-inventing or re-naming an area of service which is open to ALL women IN the church?
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Robert
Berman
Crossville, TN
Regardless of who's right and who's wrong, "fear" is not a charitable way to explain an opponent's position. It would be better to assume that everyone is guided by a sincere desire to be faithful to Scripture and to honor our Lord through the work of the Church. Even if we have different ideas about what that looks like.
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Keith
Graham
Middletown NJ (church)
There is one covenant of grace, administered one way in its ancient, shadowy form and in another way, now that Christ and His promised kingdom have come.
Under the Old Covenant, God ordained priests and Levites; all were to be men.
The New Covenant "version" of this is elders and deacons. Where in His Word does God tell us women are now eligible for these offices?
From the foundation of the Levitical system through the return of Christ, these callings and the order they bring to the life of a congregation are (not identical with), but are of the same warp and woof as marriage, the foundational relationship God ordered for families.
Husbands/fathers and wives/mothers are equal bearers of the image of God with different roles which are to represent the relation of Christ and His Church.
A congregation is a larger manifestation of the family of God.
Under the Old Covenant, God ordained priests and Levites; all were to be men.
The New Covenant "version" of this is elders and deacons. Where in His Word does God tell us women are now eligible for these offices?
From the foundation of the Levitical system through the return of Christ, these callings and the order they bring to the life of a congregation are (not identical with), but are of the same warp and woof as marriage, the foundational relationship God ordered for families.
Husbands/fathers and wives/mothers are equal bearers of the image of God with different roles which are to represent the relation of Christ and His Church.
A congregation is a larger manifestation of the family of God.
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C. David
Trimmier
Augusta, GA
Whatever happened to the "analogy of faith" in interpreting Scripture with special attention to not promoting major points of theology based on "scant" portions of scripture.
Also, some required reading for younger ministers should be old "Presbyterian Journal" articles written by G. Aiken Taylor, Robert Strong, and Morton Smith!
Remember the rock from which we were hewn. What say Ye?
Also, some required reading for younger ministers should be old "Presbyterian Journal" articles written by G. Aiken Taylor, Robert Strong, and Morton Smith!
Remember the rock from which we were hewn. What say Ye?
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Kevin
Carroll
Wheatridge, CO