Those Who Want to Re-visit Women's Roles Have Been Heard
In an article recently published in byFaith magazine, Dr. Bryan Chapell, the president of the PCA’s denominational seminary, explained why he supported the effort at the 2009 General Assembly (GA) to produce a pastoral letter addressing the subject of women’s roles in the church. Chapell wrote:
“I supported the letter because it is obvious to me that a large part of our church is feeling that it is being denied a voice on this important concern. I hoped the pastoral letter approach would allow us to hear each viewpoint with a clear understanding that the letter’s conclusions would be non-binding. Whether we are talking about a local church or the entire denomination, a refusal to listen to half of the body because we have the votes to end the discussion is not healthy long-term.”
While Dr. Chapell’s article was wonderfully temperate, it seemed clear that he was disappointed with the outcome. As a PCA minister who was relieved by the vote, I thought that some attempt should be made to answer the concerns Dr. Chapell raised, and to set forth some of the concerns of PCA members on the other side of the study committee debate. In doing so, I hope we might continue to advance the current dialogue.
Dr. Chapell states regarding women’s roles in the local church that “a large part of our church is feeling that it is being denied a voice on this important concern.” While they may indeed feel that way, it is hard to see how. Over the past few years there have been several conferences in which members of the PCA have openly advocated for an expanded role for women in ministry, including the Synergy conferences which address women as “gifted for leadership” as well as books and blogs which openly promote and address “women in ministry.” It’s also difficult to argue that advocates for the study committee are being denied a voice when for the last two General Assemblies the most important debates have been over that issue. In fact, it was only last year at the 2008 GA that Dr. Chapell himself addressed the assembly at length arguing in favor of a study committee to examine whether women could serve as deacons. Members of the PCA who are in favor of re-visiting the role of women in the church certainly have a voice, and they are being heard. It seems that their disappointment stems not from not being heard, but not being agreed with. As a friend commented, it is as though we are being told, “I can tell you aren’t listening, because if you were, you’d agree with us.”
Personally, I believe the actual situation is not that we aren’t listening, but that we are, and that the majority are concerned with what we are hearing. Let me explain why:
1) Women are not a constituency, an interest group, a minority, or a monolithic block, and we do them a great disservice when we speak of them as though they are in the courts of the church. Additionally, we err if we assume that all PCA women, or even the majority of PCA women, are in favor of studying or re-examining the role of women in the church. At least one teaching elder speaking in favor of the pastoral letter at the 2009 GA said that his wife would be happy or even ecstatic if it passed. While that might be true, my wife, and many other PCA women I know would have been devastated if it had passed. We need to be willing to acknowledge that this is, ultimately, a theological issue over which both men and women in the PCA are divided.
2) Efforts like the recent one to revisit women’s roles in the church haven’t worked well in the past, and some concrete steps must be taken to explain how we will avoid the disasters that have befallen other evangelical denominations.
For instance, a brother minister recently shared with me that many years ago when the Christian Reformed Church (CRC) was considering whether to erect its own study committee on the role of women, a CRC minister assured him, “Don’t worry, we’ll never get to the point where we actually ordain women.” I’m sure the minister in question believed that, but the fact is that now, several years later, the CRC does ordain women to both offices and as a result, we found it necessary to remove them from NAPARC. How will we avoid following the same path to the same end especially given the strong similarities between our denominations? To date, I have not heard any serious acknowledgment from the other side of the debate that this could actually happen, much less a coherent strategy to prevent it. Instead, there seems to be the same kind of “that couldn’t happen to us” belief that the CRC once espoused.
3) We often hear statements along the lines of “none of us wants to see women ordained.” This language needs to be amended because clearly there are men and women in the PCA who do want to see women ordained. We’ve had at least two high-profile church plants, both of which were heavily subsidized by MNA, leave for the Reformed Church in America (RCA) over women’s ministry issues. This is especially alarming because the RCA is theologically to the left of the CRC. Clearly, while there are some complementarians in the PCA movement eager to revisit women’s roles in the church, we need to acknowledge that there are also egalitarians.
4) The real problem of the feminization of the evangelical church also needs to be acknowledged. If any study committee is really needed by the PCA, it is a study committee designed to figure out why men are leaving the church in unprecedented numbers and what we can do about it. In his book Why Men Hate Going to Church (Thomas Nelson, 2005), David Murrow cites the following sobering statistics:
• Just 35 percent of men in the U.S. attend church weekly.
• Women comprise more than 60 percent of the typical adult congregation on any given Sunday.
• At least one-fifth of married women regularly worship without their husbands.
• The majority of men attend services and nothing more.
• Men 18-29 are the least likely demographic group to be in church.
Any sort of objective view of the situation would tell us that American Christianity is in no danger of excluding females. Women already dominate in most denominations, and fewer and fewer denominations place any limitations on female ordination. For instance, our own congregation is boxed in on our street by a PCUSA church with a female pastor and a mostly older female congregation, a Baptist church also with a mostly female membership, and now a Pentecostal church also with a female pastor and a female congregation. Our congregation is one of the only churches in the area with a strong representation of young males, and not coincidentally we are also one of the last hold-outs committed to exclusively male leadership. Of all the problems evangelicalism is grappling with, excessive male involvement is not one of them, and certainly the available evidence indicates that as female leadership in the church waxes, male involvement wanes.
The above list of concerns is by no means exhaustive, but I hope it will go some way toward explaining why many of us were not comfortable with either the deaconess study committee or the pastoral letter on women’s roles.
Andrew Webb is pastor of Providence Presbyterian Church in Fayetteville, N.C.
Comments
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Sam
DeSocio
Pittsburgh
I was disappointed that the slippery slope argument, came up.
It seems like we have failed to admit that there are still some major differences between northern and southern churches. There are (unordained)women deaconess in the northern PCA, which have come in thru the RPCES. From my understanding there was no expiration date on these grandfathered church's use of the term deaconess for women "set apart with prayer".
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Warren
Hill
Hilton Head, SC
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Kenneth
Pierce
Jackson, MS
Andy is right: the prominent voices get a lot of air time. It would be refreshing to hear alternate opinions, respectfully rendered.
Ken Pierce, Trinity PCA,
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Andrew
Barnes
Tchula, MS
I especially resonate with point number 1 that Pastor Webb brought up about the voice of women. Following GA I communicated what happened at GA this past year, and the women of our church (and the men) were deeply disappointed by the number of ministers wanting a study committee to study this issue. And like the women Pastor Webb referred to in his church, the women in mine would also have been similarly devastated if it had passed.
Rev. Andrew Barnes
Tchula PCA
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Stacie
Dietsch
Macon, GA
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Harry
Ludwig
Red Deer AB
As far as the so-called 'slippery slope' I have to disagree. The probable reason that this argument is used so often, is that it is usually valid. I was born, baptized, and raised in the CRC, and watched it 'slide' and, subsequently, after looking through Church History (and History in general) saw the similar 'downgrade' happening repeatedly.
This is just an example of the Hegelian dialectic: thesis, anti-thesis, and synthesis.
Whenever the Church refrains from (my use of the term) semper reformada (returning to the scriptural foundations for belief and practice) and instead engages in a "discussion" with alternative views (women in office, Scriptural authority, views of Genesis, etc.), they are following the dialectic: established truth + contrary situational or cultural expediencies/accomodations = comprimised truth. The spiral can only continue into more and more distant (from orthodoxy) heterodoxy. This is especially 'bound' to happen as we...
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Vaughn
Christensen
Chicago, IL
Here's hoping we'll see this article in print!
Vaughn
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Al
Henderson
Harlingen, TX
I hope this will be put in the print edition, as well, as a helpful service to the church... and that whatever "dialogue" continues be substantive and scriptural in focus. As well as irenic, which both you and Dr. Chapell have done, in line with Pastors Duncan and Keller.
Thanks again!
Al Henderson
RE, Covenant PCA
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Brenda
Faria
Colorado Springs, Colorado
I was in a Denver PCUSA church in the 70's that took a biblical stand on elder and deacon qualifications and was forced out of their building and denomination. Elizabeth Elliot also spoke to that congregation, encouraging a friend of mine to no longer teach the men, because they might not step up and develop as leaders while she stayed in that role. That friend developed a wonderful, fruitful ministry to other women.
I want men to lead and I never feel less of a woman, or a person, because of it! (Not less opinionated either!)
I guess I am a female member of the "old guard" and am constantly reminded how quickly we forget.
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Rick
Richert
Dunedin Fl
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Josiah
Lovett
Bothell WA
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Brenda
Faria
Colorado Springs, Colorado
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Joseph
Ivory
Fayetteville, NC
I have trouble understanding the objections to the 'slippery slope' argument I've sen here and elsewhere. The phenomenon of taking incremental steps to ordaining women has happened multiple times, not just in the CRC. Learning from history is supposed to be a virtue. Quite frankly, I'd be disappointed not to see it brought up. It is historically and logically valid.
I also object to speaking of the women in our denomination as a monolithic whole in favor of ordination. I remember coming home from Presbytery and telling my wife about the rumblings about deaconesses. She whipped around and said "WHAT!!???" And no, her voice was not quivering with joy.
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Ruth
Olson
DeLand, Florida
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Richard
Doster
Atlanta, GA
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Matt
Terrell
Saint Louis, MO
You may be presuming too much in your equation "established truth + contrary situational or cultural expediencies/accomodations = compromised truth". In it you assume that you have already perfectly achieved "established truth" in regards to this issue, despite the reality that many good and faithful church leaders, both past and present, have come down on various sides of this discussion.
In other words, I think what many faithful Believers in our denomination believe is that we have jumped too quickly to some of our current conclusions about what biblically "established truth" is regarding women in the church. So the point of the discussion is not to soften or "compromise" biblical truth, but instead to understand that truth more deeply and fully, so that we as God's people can more deeply and fully obey him and participate in his mission.
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Harry
Ludwig
Red Deer, AB
You're right.
I wrote too quickly; not choosing my words as carefully as I might have.
What I meant by "established truth" was established, or acknowledged biblical truth - as in properly exegeted. Naturally, man being not yet 'perfect' we can only cling to our confessional theology while continually expounding (and then, understanding) the plain meaning of Scripture. Thus, your beginning thesis should never synthesize (compromise) with a (corrupter) antithesis; and, instead, should always be referring back to the Truth (the Word/Jesus), to insure its highest purity. Our thesis might be Acts 4:12, an antithesis might be Buddha saves, the synthesis might be Billy Graham! (ie: see interview with Larry King several years ago.) Likewise: Men in Office + Women in Office = Both in Office (or Women in part Office, at first, then next dialectic).
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Jack
Delivuk
Beaver Falls, Pa.
It is interesting to note that none of the males on either side of the question have advocated a survey asking women what they want. It makes more sense than males telling the church what women want.
My survey thoughts are. 1. The majority of PCA members are women.
2. The majority of persons voting in congregational elections are women.
3. Therefore, if women wanted a change in church officers, they could elect a slate of elders who would agree with them.
4. If woman do not want change in church officers, they will CONTINUE to vote for men who agree with them.
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Lee
Ferguson
Murfreesboro
1) In the past I had the honor of teaching logic in a Christian school. Any basic text in informal fallacies will point out that the "slippery slope argument" is a logical fallacy. If you don't believe me just check it out.
2) Though we can point to the CRC as a denomination that has started with women deacons and gone to women elders, we could just a easily point to the RPCNA who have had women deacons for a long, long time and have no move toward ordaining women to be elders.
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Andrew
Webb
Fayetteville, NC
Also, is it really simply "the slippery slope fallacy?" or the fact that world, the flesh, and the devil never have to change their playbook when dealing with the church, as the same moves always bring about the same results? For instance, any denomination that has embraced theological liberalism has first begun to deny the historicity of the bible. Is pointing that out an example of the "slippery slope fallacy" or simply noting that the devil always starts the ball rolling with the question, "Hath God Said?"
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TE Kevin
Carroll
Macon, MS
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Ted
Hess
Katy, TX
Is it or is it not an established truth that women are not to teach or exercise authority over men (1 Timothy 2:12) ? Or that the head of woman is man (1 Corinthians 11:3)?
Knowing where one stands on the question of whether or not these passages constitute "established truth" might be a helpful ground rule in future debate.
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Harry
Ludwig
Red Deer, AB
(Though, I would like to say that I count a good many friends/brethern in the PCA and other P/R federations, and I hope they feel the same.)
Also, I am NOT an office-bearer, nor educated beyond High School. So, take my words with a grain of salt, and look to the Word and historical orthodoxy.
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Andrew
Webb
Fayetteville, NC
My initial reply to you got lost somewhere so here's a quick note in reply. Actually the RPCNA did follow up its decision to ordain women as deaconesses with a vote to ordain women as elders in the 1930s. While the vote was passed in the synod, it just failed to clear the 2/3rds of session approval requirement, so they didn't get women elders by the narrowest of margins.
Once again though, I'd note that I STILL have not heard any serious acknowledgment from the other side of the debate that what happened to almost all the other denoms that have "studied" the issue and approved deaconesses could actually happen to us, and as yet no coherent strategy to prevent it. Brothers, in the interests of advancing the dialogue I'd like to hear what you believe grants the PCA immunity from what happened to the CRC (& PCUS, PCUSA, etc.)
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Matt
Terrell
Saint Louis
Thank you for your kind response. And I think your question is an important one, though I'm not sure how to answer it directly, but I will do my best...
I think so many people object to the "slippery slope" argument because it shifts the focus of the discussion away from the current issue and onto some potential future conflict. If, for the sake of argument, the Bible indeed allows for an expanded role of women in our church (deaconess, etc.) it would be wrong for us to deny that expansion based on a fear of some result that may potentially happen. So for me, the rejection of the "slippery slope" is not about whether I think we are exempt from following in the footsteps of others who have discussed this issue, it is instead about what I believe to be Biblical.
continued below...
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Matt
Terrell
Saint Louis
In other words, I don't think we should fence what God in his Word does not fence, especially if our fencing is done out of a fear of some potential future result. Is that not one of the errors of the Pharisees? Basically, many reject the "slippery slope" because it is not essentially about the issue at hand, it is instead about a potential future result. I hope that is a helpful clarification.
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Nancy Peery
Olson
Providence PCA Fayetteville, NC
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Andrew
Webb
Fayetteville, NC
Thanks again for engaging in dialogue. Two further thoughts occur to me. First, you'll note that I began by commenting that the arguments in favor of women's ordination or commissioning to either office have been heard (and will continue to be heard as those pressing for that position are not going to stop writing books, teaching classes, and holding conferences.) Women's ordination is, after all, the majority report in modern American Protestantism and at present the PCA and the OPC are the last major American Reformed denoms that do not ordain women to either office.
Secondly, Reformed theologians recognize the legitimacy of cause and effect more often than you might think. There is a reason for instance that drunkeness is listed under violations of the seventh commandment in the Larger Catechism, or why Calvin so often stated that one error inevitably leads to a host of other ones.
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Harry
Ludwig
Red Deer, AB
Again, you are right if the essence of the "slippery slope" argument is, indeed, that fear of continued decline. That, alone, cannot be a valid reason. Back to the question: I agree with Mr. Hess, do you? And, do you see what I was (awkwardly) trying to get at with the transmogrification (being generous to some) of the "slippery slope" argument to the "dialectic downgrade" of compromise?
Regardless, the confessional (or orthodox) position has always been that women are "biblically" not available for office; thus positing the possibility of office is antithetical, and integrating (though this sin may be no worse than any other sin being committed) them with a quasi- or pseudo-office is synthetic.
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Jill
Essex
Austin, TX
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Matt
Terrell
Saint Louis
Yes, I agree that those passages (1Tim 2:12, 1Cor 11:3) are biblically "established truth". However, in line with what I wrote earlier, I think that we sometimes interpret those passages too much through the grid of our own personal values and contexts, instead of through the grid of the author's original intent and historical and literary context. To be fair, I think people on both sides of this discussion are guilty of this error (myself included).
Also, I need to object to the assertion that historical orthodoxy is monolithic on this issue. John Calvin, for example, who was certainly no slouch in exegesis, held to a view that called for women to hold an office of deacon that is very similar to the commissioned deaconess position that many in our denomination advocate (see Institutes 4:3:9).
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Andrew
Barnes
Tchula, MS
Just to be clear about Calvin, what did he mean when he used the word 'deaconess'? If we see what he writes about them in all his writings one will find that he did not mean 'deaconess' as in a woman deacon (ordained). Rather, he meant a woman who was serving (helping) the deacons. This is much like what the PCA allows in sessions alllowed to appoint men and women (who are not ordained) to 'assist' the deacons in their work.
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Matt
Terrell
Saint Louis
He says, "there was no public office which women could discharge save that of devoting themselves to the service of the poor. If we admit this, (and it certainly ought to be admitted,) there will be two classes of deacons, the one serving the Church by administering the affairs of the poor; the other, by taking care of the poor themselves." (Institutes 4:3:9)
As you implied, and as I said before, this is very similar to the commissioned (not ordained) deaconess position that many in our denomination advocate.
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Matt
Lawrence
Valdosta, Georgia
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Andrew
Barnes
Tchula, MS
Except that commissioning of deacons is no where in Scripture, nor advocated for in the BCO. :)
Andrew Barnes
Tchula PCA
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Rebecca
Phillips
Fayetteville, NC
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Elizabeth
Waibel
Clinton, MS
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Alex
White
Charleston, SC
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C. David
Trimmier
Augusta, GA
I came to faith in Christ in 1972. Remember the situation we were in with the Southern Presbyterian Church? Many ministers and churches fought for an "inerrant Scripture" to the point in withdrawing from the PCUS they lost property, retirement, etc.
I encourage all of my Fathers and Brothers to re-read "Presbyterian Journal" articles by G. Aiken Taylor, Don Patterson, Paul Settle, Morton Smith, etc.
Where is sola scriptura, analogy of faith, etc. Where is the view theologically that no point of theology is to be established on a "scant portion of scripture"?
Let us hold to an Infallible Text or we will venture down the same path as in 1972.
What say ye?
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Harry
Ludwig
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Cavallaro
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